View Full Version : Hanged for Importing Heroin
Van Tuong Nguyen is facing imminent execution following the rejection of his appeal for clemency by the President of Singapore on 21 October. He is due to be hanged on 2nd December, 2005.
An Australian of Vietnamese origin, Van Tuong Nguyen was arrested at Singapore’s Changi airport in transit from Cambodia to Australia in December 2002, after police found a package of heroin strapped to his back and a second package in his backpack. In March 2004 Van Tuong Nguyen, a former salesman, and once a student, was sentenced to death for importing 396.2 grams of heroin into Singapore. He was convicted under the Misuse of Drugs Act, which carries a mandatory death sentence for anyone found guilty of trafficking in more than 15 grams of heroin. In October 2004 the Court of Appeal rejected his appeal against the death sentence.
Van Tuong Nguyen, who had no previous criminal record, was born in a refugee camp in Thailand and moved to Australia with his mother and twin brother when he was six months old. He told investigating officers that he had agreed to carry the drugs in order to pay off debts owed by his twin brother. He said he did not know how much he was being paid for the trip. It was his first trip outside Australia. Since his arrest he has shown remorse and cooperated fully with the authorities. The Australian Federal Police have confirmed that, while in custody, Van Tuong Nguyen assisted.
In April, the Singapore Law Society Gazette published a commentary on Van Tuong Nguyen’s Appeal Court decision, arguing that there was “light on the path” because “it is now open to an accused to show ... that a mandatory death sentence is cruel and inhuman punishment under customary international law.”
Singapore, with a population of just over four million, has the highest per capita execution rate in the world. More than 420 people have been executed since 1991, the majority for drug trafficking. The Singapore government has consistently maintained that the death penalty is not a human rights issue. The Misuse of Drugs Act provides for a mandatory death sentence for at least 20 different offences and contains a series of presumptions which shift the burden of proof from the prosecution to the defence. Prisoners facing execution may be granted clemency by the President, but this is extremely rare.
Source: AustraliaUnites.net (http://www.australiaunites.net/background.php)
This has been on the news in Australia several times and is sort of like the main "head liner" or "issue" that's going on, if you get what I mean. This is just stupid, this guy is getting hanged for importing ONLY about 400 grams of heroin. And the prime minister of Singapore was saying crap like that could kill over 20,000 people or something like that. TOTAL BULLSH*T. That couldn't even kill ONE person (unless well... they like have a whole lot more) and was probably ONLY for one person. On a side note, he was doing this to pay off his brother's debts, who i'm guessing is feeling pretty bad about this since it was for him. Also, it's this Friday and the government (Australian, obv.) has been trying to do crap (like calling the Internationl.... something and stuff) but it doesn't look like the Prime Minister of Singapore is going to change his mind. He's (as in Van Tuong Nguyen) already planning his funeral and stuff. The Prime Minister (of Australia) most likely doesn't even care that much and just says a few sentences on the matter every now and then to make it look like he does. On the day the guy is getting hanged, he's going to a Cricket match, wtf?
Seraphis
30-11-2005, 11:05
Im not trying to disagree with the post as I can see it from your point of view... but if you think about it, if you let one go free, others will start to ask for clemency too. On a side note, you cannot deny that drugs are indeed bad for you.
In this region, drugs is a very important issue due to the profit it can make from black markets and underground syndicates. It may not kill you in the short run but I am sad to say that the social impact it has on society is bleak as well. Taking a look at the bigger picture, that heroin could have resulted in addiction from people who are new to drugs. I have seen broken families due to drugs because a few of my schoolmates got addicted to it and their parents disown them.. Crime rates increase because people cannot afford to pay for the drug but at the same time cannot live without it. It is not a sweeping statement but a fact in this region that some crimes are committed here to fund their need to buy drugs. Not only that, don't forget that they may be high on it while committing the crime.. if their target doesn't give in so easily, what may have been a simple theft may result in a murder. Rehabilitating the drug users is a constant drain on the government's revenue and the saddest part is that when they come out from rehab, they go back to their old habits again...
Some governments that can't afford to fight it will take the easier way out which would be to execute whoever the source is. We have to accept that fact.. Not all countries are fully developed and that may very well be the best alternative. Singapore may very well be a developed country but the spillover effects from neighbouring countries is not pretty either. If Singapore does not maintain that hard line rule, its immediate neighbours like Thailand, Indonesia or perhaps even Malaysia might make Singapore its hub to escape the death penalty in each other's respective nation. Heh.. if this happened in China I bet that this argument would not have even been started..
Its more of a question of morality at the end of the day.. Its the same argument as "I stole money from a bank because I needed it" and getting away free because someone big managed to argue that you needed the money. That does not mean you are guilty but it does not mean you are equally innocent either. Quoting from what my teacher said, "Its alright for men to rape women if they wear sexy/revealing clothes because they are playing with the men's desires" I mean, everyone knows that rape is wrong.. no matter what the reason may be. So does this mean that every man have the right to rape a woman in sexy clothes? Same with drugs.. I sympathize with him but thats how society is.. As long as you do a wrong you are condemned..
Im not siding the Singapore government nor Van Tuong Nguyen as I am giving my own personal views of this whole issue.. I may have been diverted if the issue was to do with death sentences but I suppose without it, it makes people bolder.. For instance the poor policewoman with kids in Britain who got shot for trying to stop a few hooligans... Im not advocating for death penalties.. or against it.. it depends on the nature of the crime.. Auron, I hope that you do not find this as an argument on your topic personal as I have no intention to do so.. Im just here giving my opinions as an observer..
On the whole, I hope you have a nice day and take care :)
Midisama
30-11-2005, 13:30
It's exactly what he deserves. They should ALL get punished like this. Drugs are illegal for a reason. But personally, I think they should bring back capital punishment for many other thnigs as well.
Okay, so I'm a lazy mutant and didnt read EVERTYTHING, but I think I got the general jist.
I generally disagree with the death sentence for crimes like this (And I didn't know they used CP there >.<), and so I think he should NOT have been punished by that. I did a whole project on CP a year or so ago and despite hearing both sides of the argument, for and against I completly disagree with what was done here.
So I agree with you completly, Auron. Hanging was NOT the answer to this, there are worse crimes and if anything, this makes THEM worse than the Defendant.
It's all so retarded. >_>
I must agree with some of what you said and I can understand it from your point of view (you being in that area of countries and all so might know more about this), but HANGING someone for importing a small amount of heroin. And he wasn't the source, he was just a mere delivery kinda person you could say =/ I mean sure you should punish him for trafficing drugs, no matter what the reason, but hanging him is quite overboard. I guess the laws in Singapore are strict so that people won't commit such crimes (i've been there, you see like all these signs for littering and you get like massive fines if you are caught or something like that), but again like I said before, just a bit TOO overboard. My point is that just because he DID import *a small amount of* drugs, doesn't mean he should get hung for it just several years in jail or something like that.
Dale Anthony
30-11-2005, 14:05
This all comes back to what Lenin says about Singapore, but with this news here I kinda think it's a little over the top. I mean think about it, it's a drug right? Okay, yes...it'll do some harm to someone out there and also it's illegal, but seriously...no-one in the World would even hang a murderer for killing someone (although they might do in Singapore). In terms of drugs trafficking, yes it's bad, but don't kill the sodden bloke for doing it. We've got worse things you could kill a criminal for AND these days we've got more important things to arrest criminals for too.
Although, I'm not saying he shoulda got away with it.
Seraphis
01-12-2005, 03:34
Sorry if this is a little off-topic m(_ _)m
Honestly speaking... I am surprised though.. why this issue has been given so much publicity and all that.. There have been so many hangings taking place but it never even appears in the news locally or internationally..why is the issue blown up now? Does this make him more special than the others who were hanged before him who had the same reasons?
Razorblade Kiss
01-12-2005, 04:19
dudeee that's crazy.
Heroin is bad and all but that guys getting the death sentence?
Holy expletives.
I think this is a good punishment. Heroin ruins lives, whether you take it or the people around you take it, it sucks you all in. My uncle took heroin, and we're pretty sure he still does, and it's had a really bad effect on our family. He's associated with all kinds of people he owes money to, he recently got beaten to near death.
Dealing in heroin, getting hanged for it, seems like a good punishment to me, no matter what reason you do it for.
Its up to the users whether they wanna kill themselves or not through heroin abuse. This guy, if he was only just trying to pay off a debt, could be a decent man - have the Singapore authorities looked into this debt and him trying to pay it off? Have they talked with Australian authorities about finding the people that got him to do this?
Also hanging is savage and barbaric. The human race is above that, why hang a person? Its just a short fix for a problem thats not going to end.
And how is a guy gonna learn his lesson when he's dead?
Sure, there's the whole sorta "ooh I can't do that, I'm gonna get hanged" thing, to prevent people doing it - but some people aren't capable of that kind of thinking, and believe that its alright for them to do it - like if they're paying off a debt. What works for some people doesn't work for others, and a better solution should be found.
Tharrick
01-12-2005, 09:16
Its up to the users whether they wanna kill themselves or not through heroin abuse.
So you're saying that they should legalise heroin?
The guy committed a crime. He deserves a punishment for it. It just so happens that he committed it in a country where the punishment is death.
Did I SAY legalise heroin? No. You just assumed it.
Dale Anthony
01-12-2005, 12:52
They practically kill everyone for everything in Singapore so it really is unsurprising he's gonna be hanged. Although, I do still believe he shoulda got a lesser punishment. I'm POSITIVE, Singapore have had one or two people from their own country who's caused crimes elsewhere so surely their whole "Break the Law and Die" routine, doesn't really work. They could have been bigger crimes too and were they hanged? Nah, they were probably just stuck in a prison cell for like three years.
I'm telling you, as much as I hate drugs that country is overthetop with killing people. They might aswell just have people kill each other. You're bount to break the law in someway throughout your life. Maybe not with drugs, but y'know.
TriggerHappi:D
01-12-2005, 15:42
Well, drugs are drugs, whether it's 5 pounds or 1 ounce. (I bet your Pips over in the UK can't understand my metric system! Go America! XD) But to give 'im the death sentence? Wow, that's kinda' overdoing it. Damn, I forgot what I was gonna' say next. But yeah, that is pretty f***ed up...
Note to Self: Stay away from Singapore.
Other Note to Self: Dispose of 'secret stash' when I get home. <.< >.>
Tharrick
01-12-2005, 21:48
Did I SAY legalise heroin? No. You just assumed it.
Currently, it's up to the courts and the law. When you remove that, and say 'it's up to the individual', you stop the law's involvement. Therefore, legalisation.
I bet your Pips over in the UK can't understand my metric system! Go America!
Ounces and pounds are imperial system, not metric.
Currently, it's up to the courts and the law. When you remove that, and say 'it's up to the individual', you stop the law's involvement. Therefore, legalisation.
Ounces and pounds are imperial system, not metric.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3547/image0039ir7mx.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Sorry couldn't resist :P been looking for an excuse to use one of those pics for a while now. Anywho Gareth is right, its imperial!
EDIT: oh and triggerhappi? UK rules j00 :P
Tharrick
01-12-2005, 23:45
http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/Images/Newpics/19SP33md.jpg
God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
http://www.eurocosm.com/Application/Images/Newpics/19SP33md.jpg
God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen
GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
Send her victorious, happy and glorious, god save the queen
haha ok lets stop all this patriotism stuff now and get back on topic :)
Tharrick
01-12-2005, 23:50
:O But you missed a line! You left out 'long to reign o'er us'!
A mod, spamming? Uh - back on topic!
I don't like capital punishment... its just, why kill someone when you can get info from them? hehehehehehe :D
A mod, spamming? Uh - back on topic!
I don't like capital punishment... its just, why kill someone when you can get info from them? hehehehehehe :D
na i wasn't spamming (at least not on purpose) it was just a laugh :)
And I think in some cases capital punishment is a great idea i think it should however only be used for the most serious of crimes.
TriggerHappi:D
02-12-2005, 06:01
Ounces and pounds are imperial system, not metric.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm not stupid. :D
EDIT: oh and triggerhappi? UK rules j00 :PSays the man who from the country that lost the Revolutionary War. You guys got creamed by farmers! FARMERS!
Tharrick
02-12-2005, 08:44
Says the man who from the country that lost the Revolutionary War. You guys got creamed by farmers! FARMERS!
And our navy defeated a force five times its size. We've weathered two World Wars right on the firing line, and we held one of the biggest empires in history.
The only place I give more respect to in terms of sheer survival is Malta.
^ MAN YOU KNOW HOW MANY MALTEASE PEOPLE THERE ARE OVER 'ERE? (Yeah I got a couple of Maltease friends and I know there are alot more).
Anyways he was hung today =/ Though I don't think there's been any official annoucement yet and stuff. He wasn't even allowed to hug his family or anything, only "touch". They gave him one last wish and that was to see his family (since I don't believe in Singapore you can or something like that) and they gave him "limited physical contact". And well the reason it's a "big issue" in Australia is probably cause it's an Australian guy =/ And I never knew they HUNG people in Singpore, but I did know they were strict.
Chris: It's his brother who has a debt and he was trying to pay them off for him. Also I don't think the Singapore government cares why he did, only the fact that he DID do it =/ And as for the Australia government, I dunno. The Foreign Minister did say some crap about how this is just stupid because it won't help them find who actually set up his trip, etc. Btw, he's also done this before (importing drugs that is).
CLEARLY he should get punished for it, but something like hanging him is just far too overboard. Maybe life in prision or something, I dunno but this is just overboard, like I said before. And I don't see why he should "deserve" this, sure he imported drugs. But aren't most drug offenders given a certain punishment due to how much they hold? He didn't have THAT much as compared to alot of other drug-related cases. So he should of got [insert amount of years] in prison =/ I mean he was just trying to pay off a debt for his brother (which of course doesn't mean jacksh*t to the government and stuff, but still... HANGING? Like atleast if it was CP, something not so... brutal?).
Tharrick
02-12-2005, 12:44
HANGING? Like atleast if it was CP, something not so... brutal?
If done properly, hanging is more humane than lethal injection
Because the doctor involved in lethal injection has no actual contact or view of the prisoner, he can't monitor the procedure to make sure that, for example, the anaesthetic has taken hold properly - it's estimated that a large percentage of those killed by lethal injection are actually conscious but paralyzed for the whole agonizing process.
Whereas hanging, if done properly, breaks the neck from the instant you hit the end of the drop - death is much, much faster.
But if your neck doesn't break you have to choke.
Tharrick
02-12-2005, 12:59
But if the guy who is hanging you has any sense of what he's doing at all, he'll set it up right, and you'll be dead very quickly.
If, on the other hand, he's a total amateur who has absolutely no knowledge of how to properly hang someone, then he shouldn't be doing that job
Dale Anthony
02-12-2005, 13:16
What do you think it would be like if he had his head chopped off? I mean...hanging is pretty medieval ain't it? Do you think be-heading would be more humane? I mean, if the axe is strong enough, surely his head would come off, straight away right?
Tharrick
02-12-2005, 13:21
Yeah, beheading isn't too bad for execution, provided again that the guy doesn't botch the job.
Yeah that's what I meant by "brutal", since I thought well they just choke to death or something like that - ain't exactly what you'd call humane =/ But I guess if they just died in an instant, then well it wouldn't be so painful or anything. And beheading? Yeah that is quick, but... the "beheading" part isn't so great, i'm sure if the person was getting buried that having the head on would be.... better =/
Dale Anthony
02-12-2005, 13:54
Meh, dude. Who needs a head when you're dead? I mean face it...off with the head, family are angry that he did something bad...oh well, at least it wasn't painful? xD
That could kinda work right?
I think alot of people, mainly being the general public wouldn't really agree to this sort of thing if it was going to be a law. Heck, it probably wouldn't even pass through as a law I mean sure it's not too painful, but again I don't people like the idea of someone losing their heads. Okay I think we should get off the beheading subject.
Yeah I watched the news like half an hour ago, they did have an annoucement (the Singaporean prime-minister) about Van Nguyen (sp?)'s death. It's pretty stupid that he wasn't allowed to have a last hug or anything with his mother or anything, after the Australian Government asked the Singaporean Government. There's been several drug-related cases concerning Australians in the last two years, most being in Bali, Indonesia however =/
Grace Saunders
02-12-2005, 15:33
And so he should. Drugs is crime.
Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm not stupid. :D
Says the man who from the country that lost the Revolutionary War. You guys got creamed by farmers! FARMERS!
I'll have you know that when a few million farmers get together (with pitchforks) they can be damn scary. and dont talk down about the UK :P WE FOUNDED YOU! so you're technically jsut putting yourself down :P
They practically kill everyone for everything in Singapore so it really is unsurprising he's gonna be hanged. Although, I do still believe he shoulda got a lesser punishment. I'm POSITIVE, Singapore have had one or two people from their own country who's caused crimes elsewhere so surely their whole "Break the Law and Die" routine, doesn't really work. They could have been bigger crimes too and were they hanged? Nah, they were probably just stuck in a prison cell for like three years.
I'm telling you, as much as I hate drugs that country is overthetop with killing people. They might aswell just have people kill each other. You're bount to break the law in someway throughout your life. Maybe not with drugs, but y'know.
not for EVERYthing, getting illegal firearms will/might get you hanged, 1st degree murder gets hanged drug TRAFFIKERS get hanged, Drug abusers on the other hand get rehab, those are the only 3 things singapore will do to excecute,other then that, its a either a heavy fine or jail. i should know i got fined for littering :(
on the part where SG commit a crime in other country? Singapore will just say "do as you please" with them either you want to excecute them or not. if you commit the 3 things as i stated above and you are over 18 years old and over, you will get hang.
^ Still the laws are quite strict and that may be good in some cases - to prevent people from doing those things but I think it's over the top and people will still do it anyway =/ And yeah I saw all these signs for littering when I went over there, forgot how much but I knew they were pretty big fines (well pretty big FOR a fine).
Singapore's policy is "you do whatever you want, we catch you, you are dead" but its quite comical to see car drivers dashing to their cars to try and prevent to get a ticket for illegal parking lol, same for underage smokers.
Dale Anthony
13-12-2005, 15:23
You said something about they can do as they please in other countries? I think we as a country here would often punish people for breaking laws in other countries, yet Singapore would do nothing if one of you guys were to break a law elsewhere?
That right, Lenin?
I can kinda understand why they'd fine people for littering. Although are the streets really that clean there? I don't mean that offensively just I've never really noticed.
^ Dale is it lol. From what I remember the streets are friggen clean (well as for rubbish that is) lol. And man they've got alot of plants, trees, etc everywhere too.
Dale Anthony
13-12-2005, 16:00
lol. Yeah, well littering is kinda a problem these days. It's one thing I don't like to see so much cause it does ruin places, but it's good to see Singapore or doing something about it in some way.
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