View Full Version : Stun Guns for Safety
Grace Saunders
20-09-2005, 22:08
I hope they don't introduce these weapons to British police officers because I heard that they have caused a few fatalities. I know they have recently welcomed the idea in America. I guess you really cannot blame them due to the major increase in crime. Scotland actually has more crime than anywhere else in Europe right now. Although pepper sprays may still be used, I can see them being replaced. I took a can of body spray with me once as a weapon due to this bully who attacked me once. I saw him again but I never used the spray. I would have got in crap if I did though.
Tharrick
20-09-2005, 22:14
Tasers are far better than issuing actual guns to policemen. They're highly unlikely to actually cause a fatality, far less likely to kill someone than e.g. whapping them over the head with a nightstick. Long-term effects are practically non-existant unless the tasee is prone to heart disease, at which point they shouldn't be out rioting anyway.
Big Boss
20-09-2005, 22:25
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/images/xtremeads.jpg
That should lower the crime rate.
I think a gas gun would be the best choice, though, some people could actually die from the contents in it if they are allergic. The're used often to stop riots.
A safty defense weapon wouldn't do much good if the criminal is equipped with a firearm and decides to use it.
Tharrick
20-09-2005, 22:30
They're working on more effective gadgets to deliver the stunning shock of the tazer now. Like a sticky-shocker from splinter cell. No shitting. It actually adheres to the target and delivers a shock, and can then be remote activated to deliver another should the target persist in trying to get you
Sixthcrusifix
21-09-2005, 01:35
I think rubber bullets have the least side effects as far as people dying. Old people get heart attacks from Stunners and Asthmetic people just plain DIE from gas. I think Rubber Bullets, Salt and perhaps nets.... big nets....
I have a Hand Held Tazer, I've always waned to use it on somone.
Big Boss
21-09-2005, 01:40
I think rubber bullets have the least side effects as far as people dying. Old people get heart attacks from Stunners and Asthmetic people just plain DIE from gas. I think Rubber Bullets, Salt and perhaps nets.... big nets....
I have a Hand Held Tazer, I've always waned to use it on somone.
Depends where you hit the person with a rubber bullet...you could die from one of those I believe.
Tharrick
21-09-2005, 01:41
rubber bullets can still kill, dude. If one hits you in the eye or throat, or elsewhere at close range, you can still die
Sixthcrusifix
21-09-2005, 07:05
rubber bullets can still kill, dude. If one hits you in the eye or throat, or elsewhere at close range, you can still die
Well obviously If I hit you in the temple with a heavy spoon you'll die. I'm talking about complications/reactions, Not the AIM of the officer. You missaim with any weapon and you can kill somone. I never said they couldn't kill, I said they didn't have side effects like heart attacks and asthma.
Big Boss
23-09-2005, 02:00
Well obviously If I hit you in the temple with a heavy spoon you'll die. I'm talking about complications/reactions, Not the AIM of the officer. You missaim with any weapon and you can kill somone. I never said they couldn't kill, I said they didn't have side effects like heart attacks and asthma.
No side effects other then a nice, big ass bruise and grueling pain. Those things are supposed to hurt like hell.
Just goes to show that any form of a weapon is unsafe unless you know what you're doing.
Sixthcrusifix
23-09-2005, 08:45
No side effects other then a nice, big ass bruise and grueling pain. Those things are supposed to hurt like hell.
Just goes to show that any form of a weapon is unsafe unless you know what you're doing.
Well that's not really a side effect it's just ... an effect. loll. Well of course, no weapon is EVER safe or else it wouldn't be a weapon:
1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.
2. Zoology. A part or organ, such as a claw or stinger, used by an animal in attack or defense.
3. A means used to defend against or defeat another: Logic was her weapon.
Get a net gun... that could work. Only problem is people falling flat on their faces...
Tharrick
23-09-2005, 10:09
People are going to get hurt regardless of the method you use to subdue them. The difficulty is finding one with the right balance of high stopping power and low chance of dangerous side-effects, and in my opinion that's the taser or other electric-shock method, since the new ones can be delivered up to 40ft away and still be effective.
They're working on a system they call the PEP (Pulsed Energy Projectile) which causes an instantaneous plasma effect that triggers every single pain receptor in the body. More effective than the taser, and less side-effects, but a) it's still in development and b) pain without physical damage? Can you imagine the illegal uses of THAT little piece of kit?
Sixthcrusifix
23-09-2005, 11:12
People are going to get hurt regardless of the method you use to subdue them. The difficulty is finding one with the right balance of high stopping power and low chance of dangerous side-effects, and in my opinion that's the taser or other electric-shock method, since the new ones can be delivered up to 40ft away and still be effective.
They're working on a system they call the PEP (Pulsed Energy Projectile) which causes an instantaneous plasma effect that triggers every single pain receptor in the body. More effective than the taser, and less side-effects, but a) it's still in development and b) pain without physical damage? Can you imagine the illegal uses of THAT little piece of kit?
Ew, I'd think that should count as 3 days in jail... it's almost like a pre-crime or inter-crime punishment.
Tasers have been used in America since the 70's or 80's I think, the concept is not new to them. Though there are two types,the long range pronged type used by the police force that fires a projectile into the assailant and immediately shockes them into a paralytic state. The other is a close range one which can be illegally obtained in the UK, I'm not sure what the status of these are in the USA but I think they deliver a larger shock. That is evident as it's powerful enough to bridge the gap between the two prongs, and air has an extremely high resistance so it's not like something with a low voltage could do that.
Heres some interesting facts for you I learned while in the MOD
Even if one amp of electricity passes across your heart, it will stop.
Voltage can not kill you, but it can burn you, and that can kill you,b ut directly, Voltage can not kill you.
However if there is enough voltage that it can bypass your natural body resistance the electric current can pass your heart and make it stop.
Tharrick
23-09-2005, 15:48
The heart is prone to electrical currents, yes. But since electricity can take any path through the body (and for really high voltages, the path can actually be followed by the line of damaged and burned tissue through the human body), it's not that much of a problem, provided your officers are properly trained in the use of the weapons, and also in emergency CPR (if there's time - can't take time off from riot control, for example, but one man against three policemen, if they have to taser him at least one of them can stay behind and administer treatment if required)
The PEP is more effective than a taser simply because the generated plasma fires a lot of nerves, so not only does it cause incredible agony with no physical damage, it also causes a muscular kick that'll throw the target off their feet, and enough lingering pain that it'll encourage them to keep down. Better than a rubber bullet in the face, or a truncheon to the skull.
Sixthcrusifix
23-09-2005, 21:52
It only takes one amp to totaly kill you. 100,000 Volts will NOT kill you. And unless you get your 100,000 volts from something really big the burn area will be relativly small (Tazers have two 3mm wide prongs) so even a bad burn in such a small are shouldn't kill you. And anyway 100,000 volts is not going to cause severe internal burns, it's the standard voltage for handheld tazers in America. However lightning is a different story; sometimes lightning will actually just totaly cook your insides, and sometimes lightning will cause any metal jewley you're wearing to melt onto your skin. Regardless you WILL sufer minor brain damagr from lightning because it screws up theelectrical balance of your body. I personaly just think tazers aren't the way to go, you shouldn't be sending electricity, in any form, through somones body because it's effects are too random.
I still like rubber bullets and perhaps even tranqualizer guns...
lightning bolts are hotter than the sun
if a lightning bolt hits you it's possible it can even disintegrate you into a pile of ashes
Sixthcrusifix
26-09-2005, 09:35
lightning bolts are hotter than the sun
if a lightning bolt hits you it's possible it can even disintegrate you into a pile of ashes
NO my dear you won't desentigrate. It burns you, but it couldn't possibly turn you into ashes because you're 75% water and lightning hits for only a fraction of a second. The 10 - 12,000 degrees F can't possibly evaporate all of your water in that short amount of time. And lightnig is hotter than the SURFACE of the sun, which is actually cool enough for certain probes to land on.
The thing you have to worry about is Lightning Exiting your body, Metal and rubber melting to your skin, and the electricity "frying" your brain or stopping your heart.
Stun guns = safety
stun guns REALLY means long live Police brutality.... I wouldn't trust a lot of them with them.
Tharrick
26-09-2005, 22:10
It also means that they don't have to shoot you with real guns to stop you running off or attacking them.
Sixthcrusifix
29-09-2005, 03:02
It also means that they don't have to shoot you with real guns to stop you running off or attacking them.
I'd almost rather have a hole than a heart attack. But in reality, I say I don't care what they use because I wouldn't break the law or try to flee from a cop for any reason so do I have to worry about it???
Tharrick
29-09-2005, 10:41
Since the chances of having a heart attack are very low, and apart from those chances there's very little physical damage during a taser hit, while a bullet can cause permanent damage or kill with far greater ease, I have to say that if I was going to be shot by a policeman, I'd rather it happen with a taser.
You know it doesn't even hurt that much? The shouts and screams of the tased people is because of a spasm of the diaphragm, because the electric shock causes muscles to convulse. This forces all the air out of the lungs.
Spam Grover
29-09-2005, 14:13
Using the dude who started this threads' rationale, police shouldn't have batons or flashlights either.
Tharrick
29-09-2005, 20:30
Good point. You do more physical damage with a baton or by clubbing with a maglite than you do by tasering somebody, more chance of permanent damage and more chance of death.
Big Boss
29-09-2005, 21:44
Flash Lights and Batons are more of a close range or CQC (Close Quarters Combat) styled defense weapons. If your up close, you'll cause more damage to the enemy. If we're still on the subject of Police or Security, you have to think about the certain scenario they are in.
I guess a tranquilizer gun would probably be the best choice out of a taser gun. The least dangerous...unless...there's something that I'm missing.
Tharrick
29-09-2005, 22:25
No, tranqs are dangerous, far more dangerous than a taser.
I would have thought that a taser was more dangerous but apparently it isn't ...
I would have to say a taser sounds like the best solution then, either that or the bean bag gun!
Only because its safer, well that and tasers just rock! ^_^
Tharrick
29-09-2005, 22:52
Beanbag rounds are also dangerous, anything that causes actual physical trauma is best to avoid.
Spam Grover
29-09-2005, 23:16
Hey who here has played Syphon Filter? That is one intenst taser that Gabe's got. If tasers actually do that, I really don't want police to have them.
Tharrick
30-09-2005, 00:29
Taser delivers a fairly mild charge for about 5 seconds. I've seen people get up straight away after being tased. When you see people lying on the floor screaming, it's absolute bollocks, and the police know it because one of the requirements of being issued with a taser is that you're shocked by one first so you know what it feels like.
Spam Grover
30-09-2005, 01:16
But in syphon filter they catch on fire.
Tharrick
30-09-2005, 11:29
That's because syphon filter is a game. Plus, I'm guessing it's a different sort of taser. Is it the sort that fires electrodes on wires, or the sort where you just prod someone? Because that sort carries a higher voltage and can be held for quite some time, whereas the air tasers used by police forces deliver a set 5-second charge
Spam Grover
30-09-2005, 17:42
The kind with the wires.
Tharrick
30-09-2005, 17:45
In that case, they've taken a little artistic licence with the thing, because tasers don't make you smoke or catch on fire or anything.
Big Boss
02-10-2005, 02:48
No, tranqs are dangerous, far more dangerous than a taser.
How are they dangerous? I can understand if it's a sedative and you overdose with them.
Is there more?
Keep the Stun Guns I say. A bitch is a bitch, and a bastard is a bastard so a crimenal is a crimenal. The Stun Guns were made to stun the crimenals, and then take them away to the police station were they belong.
Tharrick
09-10-2005, 23:30
How are they dangerous? I can understand if it's a sedative and you overdose with them.
For a start, you need to know your targets bodyweight etc to be able to deliver an effective dose - the dose for a huge 6ft3 bodybuilder will kill a bantamweight accountant, whereas the accountant's dose will hardly faze the bodybuilder. Secondly, the chance of having a bad reaction to the tranquiliser is fairly high, so you'd need a medical team on site as well. While a taser can cause a heart attack, anyone who can do CPR can help there, whereas you need proper medical training to stop someone who's allergic or responding badly to your tranquiliser from dying.
The Stun Guns were made to stun the crimenals, and then take them away to the police station were they belong.
This is a common misconception. Recovery from tasering is actually very fast - within maybe 30 seconds, the target will be back on their feet, although a little wobbly maybe. A second officer will be running around with handcuffs to restrain the target ASAP, although subsequent charges can still be delivered through the electrodes if they get too frisky :P
Don't believe the stuff you see when someone gets tasered and they stay out for half an hour or more. The tasers issued to the police will only put you out for a handful of seconds.
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